*Concerns of Young Mathematicians* Volume 1 Issue 2 July 12, 1993 An electronically distributed digest for discussions of the issues of concern to mathematicians at the beginning of their careers. Subscriptions to date: 175 PLEASE FORWARD TO ANY POTENTIALLY INTERESTED INDIVIDUALS Table of Contents Item # Title ------ ----- 1 Letter from the editor 2 Reaction and reviews a Various items in the first digest b YMN's birthday c Letter from William Jaco, Executive Director of the AMS d Letter from Steven G. Krantz 3 Some questions on hiring in the DOD 4 Author lines 5 Remarks and thoughts on Ed's Job Search Diaries 6 Job Posting To submit an item for publication this month mww8f@virginia.edu Miscellaneous questions should be directed to the same address for now. The temporary address for subscription orders is mww8f@virginia.edu Editor for the month of July is Mark Winstead, (mww8f@virginia.edu). The editor for August is Kalin Godev (kalin@math.psu.edu) Next issue: July 19, 1993. Submissions Deadline: July 18, 1993 5pm edt. Publication will be weekly for now, and increase when appropriate. A good guess would be biweekly by mid-September and three or more times a week by mid-October or so. This projection from a member of a group who expected 200 subscriptions by the end of July and we are already half way there. ___________________________________________________________________________ Item # 1: From the editor for July Dear Subscribers, There are three items of interest to all: I. The profile of the typical subscriber No such thing! No one has surveyed the subscribers yet, but many of you volunteered information about yourself when you asked for a subscription, while the return addresses tell something too (though those of you with "physics" in your e-mail address could be either physics or mathematical physicists working in physics departments). I would estimate that only 2/3 to 4/5 of you are mathematicians; the rest are simply in fields which are heavily influenced by mathematics or advise those potentially interested in mathematics (career placement or advisement professionals). Between 15% and 20% are ``senior'' mathematicians, including a pleasantly surprising large number of AMS officers, key committee members, etc. I would like to see more MAA and SIAM officers, though. Of the non-senior members, there is naturally a large number of recent graduates and soon to be graduates, but there are more than a few graduate students early in their studies and advanced undergraduates. And make no mistake, this is an international forum. Not much less than 20% of the e-mail addresses on our mailing list are for foreign destinations. II. Volunteers needed desperately and soon! A. Editor for the month of August- Piece together submissions in a coherent fashion. It may be appropriate to distribute less than once a week, given the nature of August in academic circles. Late note: Apparently filled, but we will need editors in the future though I believe we have September and October covered. B. Keeper and maintainer of the mailing list- Take subscription requests and add the e-mail addresses to the list. See that the editor of the month has an up to date list. A volunteer for this one is needed last week! Late note: I have received a note from someone willing to help with this, but we have not discussed it yet. C. Editor/Adminstration Board members- future and ex editors of the month and people willing to do short term projects that require knowledge of the inner workings of this effort. It is natural to believe that there will occasionally be things that need to be done which require someone who is more than casually acquainted with how things work in this organization. D. Watch this space for more! III. Future options I believe it is time to bring in everyone on the options on our future direction. There are three basic ones. I will briefly describe one at a time, listing what I see as their advantages and disadvantages and commenting on what we must keep in mind as we, the adminstrative board, explore them. Your comments are welcome; please direct them to the organizers and one of us will summarize the discussion in a later issue. Thanks are due to many for discussions so far on each of these. A. Seek reunification in some form with the Young Scientists' Network. Those of you who are members of YSN know of some of the discussion inside of YSN on this matter. Many of you may know that this is in some sense a split from YSN, though we encourage you to participate in both. Advantages: It seems to allow for the easiest adminstration of this effort, and possibly strengthens both as it allows each to reach audiences that the other cannot easily reach. Disadvantages: There is a potential to undermine our influence in the AMS, MAA and SIAM. In an amazingly short period of time, we have seemed to gain some influence with some well placed people in the AMS (see item 2c, for example). It would be good to maintain and develop this, as well as develop our relationship with the MAA and SIAM. Also, a lot of you have told me that you are disturbed by YSN's flame wars and what someone described to me as "lost direction". Too close an association with YSN may taint our appeal to this subgroup of us. Comment: If we go this route, we should make it as much of an ALLIANCE as possible. A loose alliance should allow us to maintain credibility with the AMS, MAA and SIAM. Also, I do not have a clear picture on the reputation of YSN among the senior mathematicians. B. Incorporate ourselves somehow into the AMS structure. E-mail notes have been sent in pursuit of this option. This option allows us to access the AMS resources. Advantages: This option would allow us to tap into the AMS computer resources. More importantly, it should provide us with quite a bit of credibility within the international mathematical community, especially the membership of the AMS. Though e-mail has been delivered computer services at e-math on this, we do not yet have a clear image on feasibility of this option. Disadvantages: We would run the slight risk of being seen as AMS Jr. If we are not careful to gain assurances of independence, we could find ourselves in some trouble down the road. This option seems to create fear among some on the organizational board, because of a perceived threat to our independence. Comment: From what I can tell, most members of the AMS are on or want to appear to be on our side (that of young mathematicians). I am fairly certain that if some try to threaten our independence (if we choose this option), enough AMS members will jump to aid us. We would also have to gain assurances that non-AMS members will continue to be allowed full access to YMN resources, even if they are archived on AMS machines. Since e-math is available to non-AMS members, this doesn't seem to present much of a problem. C. Remain independent This would be the hardest way to go. Advantages: Allows us to retain our independence. Disadvantages: We would be on our own totally. I have talked to some who have told me of their fears that a small minority of mathematicians could see this effort as the work of some trouble makers. If that one in hundred is on a hiring or tenure committee ... Comment: Most people I have communicated with see this as the last resort, an option only if the first two don't work out. I am planning to solicit articles on each of these from those who champion each. If you sent me remarks on this, I will see that they get into the right hands. Final remark: Many non-YSN members have written asking about information on that organization. For information, mail ysn-request@zoyd.ee.washington.edu with the subject heading "help". Mark Winstead Editor for July ________________________________________________________________ Item 2a From: Cary Timar cctimar@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu Subject: Various Items in the first digest I have three separate points to make. The first is about the charter. Should we, perhaps, include the words, "global," "worldwide," or "international" in it in various places to head off some of the debate that has occurred in YSN? I do think that our current problems are very much international in scope, and we, as a profession will gain more by working on improving the global situation, as a sum, than we will by performing pointwise optimizations that do not change this sum. Making it clear in the charter that we wish to address the problems worldwide, not just in the US, might prevent fighting over this issue. The alternative would be to specify that the organization has a US focus. My second point is just a statement. Several of my friends just completed their PhD's and have tenure-track positions. There may not be very many such instances, but there are some. My third point is merely mourning for the late, great Conjecture. I fear that this may be a sad day for mathematics. As a child, about to enter high school, I became enthusiastic about two great, unsolved problems, the Four Colour Conjecture and Fermat's Conjecture. Both were sufficiently accessible that I could understand the problem, and so that I had some inkling of what techniques I might use. Seventeen years later, both problems appear to be vanquished. Will this make it harder to inspire young kids? Too many grad students seem to be in mathematics only because they did well at it in school as it is. Will the minority who came for the beautiful problems dwindle away? -- Cary Timar, ABD, Mathematics, Vanderbilt University _____________________________________ Item 2b From: "K.N. Godev" kalin@math.psu.edu To: mww8f@virginia.edu Subject: YMN's birthday Dear Mark: I want to congratulate you for what you have been to YMN. From the novel idea to working through all the details you made it happen. I sincerely hope that YMN will survive and grow in time. One day we might meet in person and belatedly drink the proverbial glass of champagne.... Sincerely Kalin [Editor's note: It may not be too early to arrange for a meeting of YMN members and potential members at the Joint meeting in Cincinnati. Perhaps we will meet there.] _______________________________________________________________ Item 2c From: William Jaco WHJ@MATH.AMS.ORG Subject: Volume 1 of YMN To: mww8f@weyl.math.Virginia.EDU Cc: jwm@MATH.AMS.ORG, dlr@MATH.AMS.ORG, whj@MATH.AMS.ORG, curt@mth.msu.edu, aboufadel@scus1.ctstateu.edu Dear Dr. Winstead, I just read the first issue of YMN - I am very distressed that we have a need for such a newsletter, but a need there is; and so, I am glad that some have taken the initiative to undertake this activity. I want to let you know that I support your efforts and will try to see if the AMS can do more to help young mathematicians in the current poor employment situation. I would be happy to talk with you or to hear any and all ideas on how the AMS can help. A copy of the Newsletter was sent to Jim Maxwell, who is the staff person most connected with employment issues. He will be forwarding it to the AMS/MAA/SIAM Joint Committee on Employment Concerns. I understand that both Aboufadel and Annalise Crannel attended a meeting with this committee in San Antonio. There were some good comments in the newsletter and some areas where the AMS can help - I look forward to hearing from you, William Jaco cc: Curtis Bennett Ed Aboufadel Editor's note: William Jaco is Executive Director of the American Mathematical Society. ________________________________________________________________________ Item 2d Letter from Steven G. Krantz, senior mathematician From: C31801SK@wuvmd.wustl.edu Dear Mark, I don't know why I qualified for the honor of receiving the first issue of "Concerns of Young Mathematicians." I am no longer young, and in most instances cannot be trusted. But I am concerned. I hope that you can raise the level of your electronic bulletin board, or whatever you call it, above the level of generalized kvetching. It could serve a useful purpose, but you need hard facts and opinion pieces by people that matter. You could provide a forum for views and pieces which have no other outlet. Here are some random comments: a) It is not strictly true that fresh PhD's cannot get tenure track jobs, although it is the norm. One of ours got a tenure track job at Texas Tech this year. A few years ago, another one got one at Southwest Missouri State. One of our new Masters students got a tenure track job at a local junior college. Of course places like Harvard and Berkeley are not offering tenure track jobs to fresh PhD's. b) I suspect that the infrastructure is changing in a number of ways, and discussions with deans and those in the know confirm my suspicions. In the long run, we senior guys will not be coming into school each fall and saying "Well, whom shall we hire this year?" Instead we'll be saying "Well, what will our teaching load be this year?" That's grim for young people, but I fear that's how it's going to be. The reason is simple: money. I particular, the NSF has told us point blank that the "basic research" to which mathematics claims it has long contributed" is no longer needed by the government. I wouldn't be surprised if basic funding for pure math research pretty much dries up and blows away. The trickle down effect is that universities will re-align their priorities. We who have jobs will all teach more. Keep your eye on the University of California. I've heard of one campus where, last Spring, they told several two-year instructors at the end of their first year that there would be no second year. I've heard of another campus where they hired six new instructors last Spring and now they find that they have no money to pay them in the Fall. All the campuses have eliminated their paper graders and a large percentage of their TA-ships.I know talented grad students at U. C. Berkeley who are doing substitute teaching in high school to support themselves. Now the Univ. of California is suffering from the same malady that the Calif. housing market is suffering from---over-valuation. They grew too much in the seventies and eighties. Now they have to realign their priorities. But this is something we'll all have to do to some extent. c) Here are two specific things that you young guys should be complaining about. One is that the hiring system in math is quite inefficient. You probably know that medical schools have a nationwide network. Essentially everyone gets placed, though not necessarily in just the job they want. But they are all working. The powers that be are resistant to doing that in math. But it is sorely needed. Even today there are schools that compete for the latest young hotshot, he turns them down in April, and then they say "Well, we'll try next year". A lot of jobs get wasted in this way. The other thing that we should all be upset and angry about is that our fearless leaders in the best Math Departments are providing no leadership NOW when we need it most. They are anxious to be leaders when there is money to be passed out, or when a new institute is being built, or there is some junket to go on. But in a time of crisis all they do is take steps to guarantee that THEIR grants will be protected. I guess this is human nature, and if I were at one of these places I'd likely do the same. But it is aggravating and, in my view, irresponsible. Anyway, I wish your enterprise well. I don't know if anyone is listening, but what you are doing is worth a try. Sincerely, Steven G. Krantz Washington University in St. Louis P. S. A prof. told me in late April that 2/3 of the new PhD's at Berkeley had not found jobs. More informal sources indicated to me that the figures at Princeton and Harvard were close to half. I've heard that these last two schools have the resources to keep some of these people on, either for an extra year of graduate school or as some sort of instructor. Just like the homeless people who "fall out the bottom" of the unemployment statistics, making things seem a trifle better than they really are, the charity of Harvard and Princeton works as a panacea to make us all think that things in math are not as bad as they really are. ______________________________________________________________ Item 3 From: "Kenneth K. Han" kenhan@seas.gwu.edu Subject: Q: re:first issue I have a few questions. How does one get an account on e-math, I tried guest, but it didn't accept it? Also, is the view on the lack of jobs for mathematicians for industry, government, academia, some or all? I understand the NSA hires a fair number of mathematicians for crytology work, as do other DOD agencies (CIA, Army Signals Command, SPAWAR, etc) , are these jobs in dire straits too? Thank you for your time, Kenneth Han Editor's note: Anyone can access e-math. 1 telnet e-math.ams.org 2. login:"e-math" the password is the same Also, I know the answer for the NSA. The National Security Agency has cut back hiring tremendously, but last I heard from someone I know there in the chief scientists office, the plans are to hire about 20 PhDs in mathematics a year for the foreseeable future. _______________________________________________________________ Item 4 Author Lines anonymous writer writes: I would like to solicit your advice, comments, and observations on a topic which has concerned many graduate students and new graduates that I have known. It concerns the author line of papers for publication. I have been told that for mathematical papers the authors should be listed in alphabetical order regardless of who did the research and wrote the paper. While it is true that most papers in math that I have seen follow this rule, it is not true in other scientific areas. Before you flame me, wait. This may not be entirely true, but across the large number of publications at our library alphabetical ordering of authors names does NOT appear to be a solid rule. The problem I see with the alphabetical ordering is that you can't be sure of who really did the work. Also, the first author is the one most often given the credit for the work and referenced (e.g. somebody et al). Look in any bibliography and the paper is listed under the first authors name. I have also seen papers with half a dozen names on them, and I know that the work was really done by one person and their advisor with only some discussions or comments made when it was informally presented to the other people listed on the author line. I have seen this at many universities. My view of this is that they can get there names on many publications and look good to the establishment for raises, promotions, tenure, prestige, etc... How does one decide who the other authors should be and in what order to place them in? We don't want to alienate anyone or hurt their feelings, so, what to do? Include an acknowledgement section? Footnotes? And if so, how do we do it tactfully? I have wondered about this problem and it has been asked of me. A case in point is someone who has finished their degree and has done some additional research in the area, but not with their old advisor. The research involves new ideas and some that may have been suggested as further research by the old advisor. How does one go about giving credit? Note that several of these new researchers are trying to establish a name for themselves, but their names are towards the end of the alphabet. Also, the advisors and others are themselves editors and reviewers along with many of their long time friends for the publications that the papers should be published in. So, once again the question is, How to order the authors, get the credit you deserve, and have it published without offending anyone? Thanks. You can post replies to the YMN, but I would rather receive them directly via e-mail at vab@lanl.gov and I will post a summary to YMN. _________________________________________________________________ Item 5 Remarks and thoughts on Ed's ... From: Daniel Lieman dbl@msri.org Subject: YMN submission.... Status: OR Hi Mark/YMN world, This letter concerns the experiences of Ed Aboufadel - as published in FOCUS - and a recent comment of his in the YMN digest. I hope that these are not in any way personal comments - please feel free to pass this by him for his comments/reaction; his is the only job search (other than friends') with which I have even the remotest degree of familiarity... I'd like to address two topics: first, a recent comment by Ed in YMN digest that (discussing how research math is - in some areas - not widely accessible ) "Is the way mathematics has to be?"; and secondly, his job search as written up in FOCUS. The former, perhaps, troubles me more. The paragraph in full (which is still not the entire context) is (discussing the recent proof of FLT): So why am I not excited? Perhaps it is the sentence in the article that says that maybe four or five people in the world will understand the proof. (If the proof doesn't have a flaw in it, that is.) Is this the way Mathematics has to be? This alludes to quite a more troubling question, and that is How Other Mathematicians View Your Mathematics. The fact is that doing hard combinatorial work - or computational work (even if you are solving something that has been open for many years - you are just the first person clever enough to do it) is not enough these days. One has to develop machinery - new, abstract machinery - which one then applies to an interesting application. Is this the way Mathematics has to be? These two questions are intertwined - how you view mathematics and how others view your mathematics. Specialization is a part of mathematics these days. Just because I cannot understand the (correct?) proof of the solution to the sphere packing problem does not mean I cannot understand a sketch of the general ideas - or appreciate the degree of accomplishment the proof represents. The FLT proof is like that: an overview is quite easy - Ken Ribet gave one to an audience of non-specialists (perhaps 150 of them?) here at MSRI yesterday, but the details will make sense to very few people. I see nothing wrong with that. In fact, Ken is going to give *public* lectures at the Palace of Fine Arts in San Francisco in a couple of weeks - and that's quite an accomplishment in itself. There is a certain tone to Ed's paragraph: a certain "your work does not include me, and that bothers me." His next paragraph points out that his job does not include much time for research...that is an interesting discussion point - should there be such a disparity between some jobs and others, in terms of research time/teaching load? How many mathematicians should be able to "do" mathematics - not just teach it? Research professors? Other professors? High school teachers? This ties in with his job search diary - where he saw himself falling into a certain tier in the "hierarchy" of schools - and wasn't sure exactly what level he was going to. Somehow, this hierarchy is quite rigidly defined, and in the Hierarchy, professors at SCSU are not *supposed* to understand the proof of FLT. Is *this* the way Mathematics has to be? That job search, well documented in FOCUS - was also troubling. Perhaps the most unsettling points were: a) Ed had no idea what he was getting into. I don't know where to lay the blame for this - but at my old school you watched others before you apply for jobs, you asked questions, you read the job advertisements the year before you graduated, so you knew what you were going to try to do... b) His FOCUS article reads as though he expected a more personal reply from nearly all of the schools. This is repeatedly stressed throughout the last two articles. Brown, for example didn't advertise a job last year, and didn't have one, and got several hundred applications. Schools that did advertise got 1000. That's 3-4000 rec. letters to read in, say, four weeks for a faculty committee member. Or about 200/day, every day, five days a week, FOR A MONTH! Can you blame them for not making up a personal note about why you were not the best candidate for *them*? I think this ties in with issue (a) - there just isn't a clear sense of what the search was like, and what was going to happen. This letter rambles; I apologize for trying to address two things at once, but at the very least, by spreading myself and my arguments so thin, I leave myself open for (accurate and perhaps even warranted) attacks. :) I mean, discussion and discourse. Yours, Daniel Lieman dbl@msri.org OR lieman@math.columbia.edu Mathematical Sciences Research Institute, and Columbia University ___________________________________________________ Item 6 Job posting From: Cary Timar cctimar@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu Subject: DIMACS Fellowship (fwd) To: YMN | Mailing List mww8f@virginia.edu In the event that the next instalment of the YMN Journal goes out by the 14th, some might be interested in this position announcement that I received. I believe it's legitimate, and that the timing is the result of the job starting two months after it was approved. Note that they prefer e-mail applications, and those and fax are the only ones that will get there on time, anyway. Date: Wed 07 Jul 1993 Subject: DIMACS Postdoctoral Fellowhsip in Research and Precollege Education DIMACS Postdoctoral Fellowship in Research and Precollege Education DIMACS, the Center for Discrete Mathematics and Theoretical Computer Science, a consortium of Rutgers and Princeton Universities and AT&T Bell Laboratories and Bellcore, announces the availability of one experimental, postdoctoral fellowship for a one year period beginning September 1, 1993. The winner of this fellowship will spend approximately half-time doing research in an area of discrete mathematics or theoretical computer science and participating in the research life of this center and half-time learning about and participating in programs and projects in precollege education, both at DIMACS and elsewhere. The goal of this fellowship is not only to involve an outstanding researcher in precollege education during his or her tenure at DIMACS but also that he or she develop a continuing interest in precollege education to complement his or her other scientific/educational interest. If you wish to be considered for this fellowship, we need to receive an application from you no later than Thursday, July 15. If you have previously applied for a DIMACS postdoctoral fellowship for the 1993-94 year, it will suffice to send a message indicating that you wish to reactivate your previous application. You should also describe your interest in this experimental fellowship, and detail any previous experience with precollege education. Your previous letters of recommendation will suffice, but additional letters will be welcomed. If you have not previously applied for a DIMACS postdoctoral fellowship for the 1993-94 year, then you should send a vita, research plan, information about previous experience with precollege education, and a statement about your interest in this particular fellowship. You should also arrange to have three letters of recommendation sent to us. If possible, all materials should be sent via email to ida@dimacs.rutgers.edu. Materials can also be faxed to 908-932-5932 or mailed to DIMACS, P.O. Box 1179, Rutgers University, Piscataway, NJ 08855-1179. DIMACS is an equal opportunity employer and does not discriminate on the basis of race, sex, or national origin. -- Cary Timar, ABD, Mathematics, Vanderbilt University _______________________________________________________________ End of Journal Next week: Your comments and submissions.