*Concerns of Young Mathematicians* Volume 1 Issue 3 July 19, 1993 An electronically distributed digest for discussions of the issues of concern to mathematicians at the beginning of their careers. Subscriptions to date: 218 PLEASE FORWARD TO ANY POTENTIALLY INTERESTED INDIVIDUALS Table of Contents Item # Title ------ ----- 1 News and notes 2 Reaction to Lieman's note a from Curt Bennett (contains additional remarks on job ads) b from Mark Purtill c from Ed Aboufadel (contains additional remarks on a possible winter meeting get together of YMN) 3 Publicity for YMN a In TIDBITS b In NOTICES OF THE AMERICAN MATHEMATICAL SOCIETY Appended: An updated promotion file. To submit an item for publication this month mww8f@virginia.edu Miscellaneous questions should be directed to the same address for now. The temporary address for subscription orders is mww8f@virginia.edu. Starting August 1st, send subscription requests to Charles Yeomans at cyeomans@s.ms.uky.edu Editor for the month of July is Mark Winstead, (mww8f@virginia.edu). The editor for August is Kalin Godev (kalin@math.psu.edu) Next issue: approx July 28, 1993. Submissions Deadline: July 27, 1993 5pm edt. Publication will be weekly for now, and increase when appropriate. A good guess would be biweekly by mid-September and three or more times a week by mid-October or so. This projection from a member of a group who expected 200 subscriptions by the end of July and we are already there. We encourage membership in the Young Scientists' Network. For information on YSN: mail -s "help" ysn-request@zoyd.ee.washington.edu ________________________________________________________________________ Item # 1: News and notes Couldn't organize my thoughts into letter form this week. Note the later publication date next week. Personal reasons. On this week's issue: The promised feature articles on potential future directions had to be postponed. The potential authors found it too hard to write strong articles advocating their favorite direction for the simple reason that there are still too many unknowns about the conditions under which each direction would be allowed to happen. Please note the publicity we are starting to receive by reading Item 3. In the next few weeks, we should see articles written by some senior mathematiciansof some standing. I have tried to note when various AMS/MAA officers, publicationeditors, etc. have asked to subscribe and have requested that they think about writing a submission. Please note the change of subscription notice printed in the header. Last week I either stated or implied that we were getting plenty of attention from the AMS hierarchy. This past week saw plenty attention from the MAA hierarchy. I guessSIAM is next, then maybe some non-US equivalents to these will follow. ________________________________________________________________ Item 2 Daniel Lieman's letter was the main topic for discussion in many of this week's submissions. I have grouped these together. Please note that several of the articlescontain mention of items besides Lieman's letter Item 2a From: Curtis Bennett curt@math.ohio-state.edu Remarks to Daniel Lieman's submission A call for information on jobs. I would briefly like to express the comments by Daniel Lieman concerning Ed Aboufadel's job diary in *FOCUS*. I agree that there were several unsettling points. One of my major hopes is that by starting the YMN, we can inform people what they are getting into in the job market, and what they can expect. When I graduated, I had an advantage. My brother had been on the job market (in mathematics) twice in the previous 4 years. As a result, I knew much of what to expect. I want the YMN to provide some of this knowledge to job applicants. When I am monthly editor (in October) I hope to solicit pieces from faculty at schools from throughout the hierarchy (i.e, large research univ., small research univ., and teaching colleges) about how their system runs, and what an applicant can do to help their chances. Additionally, having copies of successful applications for NSF postdocs, NSA fellowships, etc. should be on hand for subscribers to obtain. This will not create more jobs, but I think that increasing the amount of understanding of the system will help. Two other brief issues. Previously Mark Winstead gave a list of 3 signs of an advertisement for a position where there is already a "chosen" candidate to hire. His list was i) A ridiculously specific job description ii) the ad appears days before the deadline, or in the case of academic positions, the ad has an early deadline, e.g. a position deadline before mid-December for a job starting the next fall. iii) the ad appears only in some obscure place. I want to point out that in today's job market, (ii) is frequently not a sign. This last year Kansas State University had an application deadline of mid-November for a position starting this August. They did not know who they were going to hire, they were merely trying to cut down on the number of applications to be considered. I was interviewed but did not receive the job. Then, Bowling Green State University put out an advertizement a month before its deadline. In this case they didn't know about funding for the position until quite late. I was hired for this job, and they certainly didn't know I existed until my application was received. As to accepting job advertizements in the YMN, I would rather we didn't accept them. They clutter up the mailings and I think there are more appropriate places for them. Curtis Bennett ---------------------- Item 2b From: Mark Purtill purtill@ccr-p.ida.org Subject: Comment about rejection letters In the second issue of YMN, Daniel Lieman dbl@msri.org wrote (about Ed Aboufadel's FOCUS articles): b) His FOCUS article reads as though he expected a more personal reply from nearly all of the schools. This is repeatedly stressed throughout the last two articles. I didn't get this impression at all. I think what Ed wanted was a more *informative* letter. For instance, I don't think it is at all unreasonable to ask that letters list the people who *were* hired, and perhaps some clue as to the qualifications that the committee liked. Since (presumably) the committee has a clue as to why they hired whom they did, writing a form letter with this information in it would not appreciably add to the heavy load of screening the applications. ^.-.^ Mark Purtill, purtill@ccr-p.ida.org ----------------------------------- Item 2c From: aboufade@scus1.ctstateu.edu (Ed Aboufadel) Last week Daniel Lieman dbl@msri.org had some thoughts on my writings both here and in FOCUS. I'd like to repsond to his posting. First, I think the discussion of How Other Mathematicians View Your Mathematics is useful. It seems that the gap between differential equations and number theory is of the same order as the gap between mathematics and chemistry. That doesn't mean, of course, that we can't learn from each other. By the way, I did not realize that an overview of the proof of FLT is quite easy. Can anyone post a short proof? On to other matters. I'm concerned that D. Lieman views me as incredibly naive. Concerning the job search, I did have some idea of what I was getting into. Starting in 1989, I saw the statistics and anecdotes in the Notices. I paid attention to what was going on. I asked questions. Of course, it wasn't until Fall 1991 that I focused on the job search and started asking better questions. I'm glad to hear that D. Lieman's old school was superior in this regard. How about telling us your jobsearch story, Daniel? Also, I didn't expect personalized rejection letters, although in this computer age, it would not be that hard to do. I did expect rejection letters that respected me, and many did not. Terse, three sentence rejection letters are offensive. Search committees could at least explain in a form letter what they liked about who they hired, as some committees did. Don't confuse naivity with being open and questioning. Remember that the Job Search Diary was unfiltered, describing my raw feelings about the process. Once I wanted to cry, "I want my Mommy!", but I left that out. :-) My discussion about FLT was similar. I know I wasn't excited about the news, and I wondered why. Here are two other hypotheses: 1) I find FLT boring; 2) I wish I was a part of the action. I'm still trying to figure it out. But "your work does not include me, and that bothers me" (which are not my words) is extreme. Changing the subject, I think someone mentioned having a get-together at the Winter Meetings in Cincinnati. I think we can get this mentioned in the meeting announcement (which will be in Notices and FOCUS) if we act quickly. I'll look into it this week. Ed Aboufadel Southern Connecticut State University aboufade@scus1.ctstateu.edu _____________________________________________________ Item 3 We are receiving some publicity. Item 3a In TIDBITS From: "Joint Policy Board for Mathematics" jpbm@hilda.umd.edu I would like to subscribe to the *Concerns of Young Mathematicians* e-mail publication of the Young Mathematicians' Network. Also, I would like to include a note on the availability of this publication as well as the formation of the YMN in a newsletter, called TIDBITS, that I distribute over e-mail most every Friday. TIDBITS mostly contains information on federal policy that affects the mathematical sciences as well as items about select events/publications within the mathematical sciences community. This newsletter goes to about 500-600 mathematical scientists, including the boards and officers of the American Mathematical Society, the Mathematical Association of America, and the Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics. (Those three organizations are the supporters of the Joint Policy Board for Mathematics, the organization for which I work.) Thank you, Lisa Thompson Governmental & Congressional Affairs Joint Policy Board for Mathematics jpbm@math.umd.edu [Editor's remark: I haven't seen the article, but I see from my mail that it appeared] Item 3b to appear in NOTICES [Editor's remark: Allyn Jackson is a staff writer for The NOTICES OF THE AMS. PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS POSTING DIRECTLY. If you have comment on it, please contact Curt, Ed or me and we will relay your remarks] From: Allyn Jackson I have finished the second part of my job market article. I will enclose below the section about the Young Mathematicians' Network - I have also passed it on to Curt Bennett and Ed Aboufadel. Please let me know if any corrections are needed. **************** \ah Young Mathematicians' Network\endah One major development in the past few months has been the organization of an electronic newsletter called the Young Mathematicians' Network (YMN). A small group of mathematicians who subscribe to the Young Scientists' Network (YSN) decided that a similar network was needed to address the particular concerns of new and recent doctorates in mathematics (see the May/June issue of the {\it Notices} for more information about YSN). When the second issue of the YMN newsletter hit the electronic waves on July 12, there were already about 175 subscribers. The first two issues of the newsletter concentrated on formulating what YMN is and what its activities would be. There were also a number of interesting postings on broader issues facing the new Ph.D. In addition, a couple of postings by some senior mathematicians demonstrate that YMN is getting noticed in the upper echelons of the community. Aboufadel and Bennett, together with Neil Calkin of Georgia Institute of Technology, Kalin Godev of Pennsylania State University, and Mark Winstead of University of Virginia, got the network started. YMN has five goals: (1) to keep the mathematical community honest about the MYTH (YSN shorthand for the ``myth'' that there exists a shortage of scientists, engineers, and mathematicians; (2) to provide information about job searches from both the inside and the outside; (3) to be a support group for those on the job market; (4) to provide information on publishing, grant proposals, obtaining industry jobs, and other things which many young mathematicians did not get in graduate school; and (5) to inform the mathematical community of the interests and concerns of younger mathematicians. (YMN makes it clear that ``young'' refers to Ph.D. age, not chronological age.) (For more information on YMN, or to subscribe, send electronic mail to Mark Winstead, mww8f\@virginia.edu.) _______________________________________________________________ End of Journal Next week: Your comments and submissions. An updated version of our promotion file %this is a latex document \documentstyle{report} \pagestyle{myheadings} \markright{About The Young Mathematicians' Network} \begin{document} \thispagestyle{empty} \begin{center} {\bf About The Young Mathematicians' Network} \end{center} \noindent {\bf The Purpose } The Young Mathematicians' Network (YMN) (working title) is \begin{itemize} \item[(i)] an international mathematicians' group keeping the international mathematical community honestabout the job market and its future; \item[(ii)] a group providing information about job searches from both the inside and the outside; \item[(iii)] a support group for those on the job market; \item[(iv)] a group providing information on publishing, grant proposals, obtaining industry jobs, and other things which many of us did not get in graduate school and \item[(v)] a group to inform the mathematical community of the interests and concerns of the younger mathematicians. \end{itemize} \noindent {\bf The Form } The form we will take is not yet permanently determined; there may be several forms before a permanent one is established. The Young Scientists Network (YSN) is one possible model. For more on YSN, send e-mail to ysn-request@zoyd.ee.washington.edu and use the subject ``help''. \\ \noindent {\bf Subscribing} Anyone is welcome to subscribe to the newsletter. For now, to subscribe contact Mark Winstead by e-mail at mww8f@virginia.edu before August 1st, 1993. After that date, contact Charles Yeomans at cyeomans@s.ms.uky.edu. Using the subject ``subscribe'' will be appreciated. You can also send inquires or volunteer to serve by sending a note to the same address. We are working on obtaining e-mail addresses solely for these purposes. \\ \noindent {\bf The adminstrators} \begin{tabular}{ll} Ed Aboufadel & aboufade@scus1.ctstateu.edu \\ Curtis Bennett & curt@math.ohio-state.edu \\ Neil Calkin & calkin@math.gatech.edu \\ Kalin Godev & kalin@math.psu.edu \\ Charles Yeomans & cyeomans@s.ms.uky.edu \\ (until 8/1/93) Mark Winstead & mww8f@virginia.edu \end{tabular} \\ \end{document}