*Concerns of Young Mathematicians* Volume 1 Issue 12 September 22, 1993 An electronically distributed digest for discussions of the issues of concern to mathematicians at the beginning of their careers. PLEASE FORWARD TO ANY POTENTIALLY INTERESTED INDIVIDUALS Please, direct submissions and questions to Edward Aboufadel aboufade@scus1.ctstateu.edu , editor for the month of September. Next issue: Wednesday, September 29 Editor for October: Curtis Bennett cbennet@andy.bgsu.edu Editor for November: Steve Kennedy kennedy@math.stolaf.edu To subscribe: Send mail to Charles Yeomans at cyeomans@s.ms.uky.edu Back issues and other information are available via anonymous FTP to ftp.ms.uky.edu, in pub3/mailing.lists/ymn-list. Editor for the month of July was Mark Winstead (mww8f@virginia.edu). Editor for the month of August was Kalin Godev (kalin@math.psu.edu). Publication will be weekly for now, and increase when appropriate. Table of Contents Item # Title ------ ----- 1 EDitorial: AMS Elections 2 News and notes 3 Mark Winstead: Advice on the Job Search and a Call for More 4 Nathan Zook: One position, not two 5 Dave Trautman: Respsonses to Aboufadel and McKay 6 Kevin Madigan: Training vs. Education in Graduate School 7 Nicolas Robidoux: Mathematica, Axiom 8 Steve Penrice: Primarily Involved in Teaching 9 Frank Sottile: A Job-hunters Seminar in Chicago 10 The Chalk Talk Room: Education Courses on my Resume? 11 The Chalk Talk Room: Clueless Parents and a Distant Spouse 12 Closing Credits _______________________________________________________________ Item #1 EDitorial: AMS Elections Are elections important? I received my ballot this week for the 1993 elections for the AMS. Included is the mailing was a document called "Nominations for President-Elect", which feature an essay for each of the two candidates for that office: Cathleen S. Morawetz and Hyman Bass. The substance of these essays is interesting. They focus almost entirely on the research accomplishments of these two mathematicians. This is understandable, since the President-Elect of the AMS should be a world-class scholar. But as I try to decide who to vote for, I ask myself, as a concerned young mathematician, which one of these two candidates better represent my interests. It is hard to tell. John Milnor, in his nomination of Bass, comments that "with funding for mathematics under sharp attack", Bass has the experience to lead us. Andrew Majda's nomination of Morawetz makes no mention of the current non-mathematical problems facing the profession. Does it really matter who's elected? My real reason to ask this question is to note that the deadline for nominations for the 1994 Elections is some time in early November. According to the 10/92 Notices, members of the Society can propose names to the Council, while the Council does the actual selection of candidates for different positions. Keeping in mind that in a tenure-track world, being an officer of the AMS must take a lot of time and hence not be a good idea, suppose a few young mathematicians were suggested to the Council. Then, suppose, against all odds, that one of these youngsters gets on a ballot, and then suppose that the person is actually elected. What could this person do? Many people in this newsletter have suggested action by the professional societies. Well, we are having an election. Does it matter? Edward Aboufadel Southern Connecticut State University _______________________________________________________________ Item #2 News and Notes Membership has now passed 400! We now have a committee of five to write The Perfect Rejection Letter. I'll keep YMN posted throughout the Fall as we work on this document. When this group was established this summer, we considered that at about this time we could increase publication of CoYM to more than once a week. Given my schedule, I can't do that, but when Curtis Bennett becomes editor in October, perhaps that will change. For now, though, publication will be weekly. Ed A. _______________________________________________________________ Item #3 Mark Winstead: Advice on the Job Search and a Call for More {Author's remark: The following article was written and circulated among the administrative board for comment. The intent of this article is to prompt discussion on the issues it brings up. Steve Kennedy has made some comments, and rather than rewrite the thing as a joint paper, I have left his remarks where he made them --MWW} Before many of us know it, the time to send out that first round of applications will be upon us (those of us applying for NSF post-docs, it's sooner than you think). I would imagine that much of the focus of *Concerns* will be turning toward the purpose of providing information on applying and being a support group. Already, many on the administrative board of YMN (executive committee ? we really don't have a consensus on the name) (new members to the board are welcome) are busy soliciting articles from current and former members of hiring committees at various sorts of schools in various regions of the country. (Unsolicited articles are also very very much welcome). It is the hope that these articles will provide many of us with the information which will form the basis for decisions on what sort of schools to apply to and how to focus our applications. I feel that now is the time to start discussions in CYM on a variety of issues involved with applying. Some discussions I would like to see, or would have liked to have seen last year, my first year on the market, are, in no particular order, with comments to prompt discussion: ** choosing writers for letters of recommendation: Schools usually ask for three or four. To give writers time to compose thoughtful letters, you want to be thinking about this now. You will likely want one to focus on your research, another on teaching (arrange for her or him to observe you in action at least once*) and the others will depend on where you are focusing your applications. It is always good to have someone from outside your school as one, a necessity if you graduated prior to this year and are active in research or have been teaching away from your PhD alma mater. [* If you are applying for a job where teaching is your major activity, i.e., any position not at a research university, then one is definitely not enough. A school at which teaching is important will probably not even consider your application unless they are convinced that you are a proven success in the classroom. You should try to identify the person(s) in your department who are sensitive to pedagogical issues. Ask this person to attend several of your classes, ask for their advice and counsel on teaching, then ask for a letter about your teaching! You need someone who can comment knowledgeably and extensively on your teaching prowess. Many professors at research universities, when asked to comment on your teaching record, write a single sentence at the end of the letter along the lines of: "I understand that X is also a capable teacher." This is the kiss of death at a small college!] ** preparing your vita: If you are applying to a variety of schools, you probably want a variety of these. Be brief, I am told that some places will only read the first page of it unless you make their short list. ** preparing documentation of your teaching qualifications: Increasingly crucial, given the current politics of higher education. ** preparing a research summary and plans (if necessary): I am guessing here, but I imagine that some schools are strict about the requirement of a PhD, and if you are graduating next spring or summer, they may back off of you unless you present evidence that you will be done. This is where you can present some evidence. Side remark on the last comment: Having an early draft of your thesis also won't hurt. ** planning on whether or not to attend the winter meeting: If you know that faculty members of schools you are considering, this may be a good idea.* However, realize that you won't be the only one vying for their attention. If there is a special session in your field of interest, fight to get on the schedule if you are focusing on schools that like to see research from their faculty. If you are applying to schools which participated in the Employment Registry in past years, consider participating and mention your participation in your cover letters to those schools. [*If you are interested in a small college job, and they will be at the meeting, it is almost essential that you go. The college's representative at the meeting will meet dozens of extremely qualified applicants there. Why should they take a chance on bringing you in for an interview sight unseen, if there are 35 people that they have already met that they would be delighted to hire? Beg, borrow or steal the airfare, sleep 12 to a room if you have to, but be in Cincinnati prepared to be charming!] ** preparing cover letters: Probably the last thing you will do but it is usually the first impression you will make on a potential employer. Faculty members and seasoned veterans of recent job searchs, please send your advice and comments to the current editor of *Concerns*. First timers on the market, send your questions and feel free to relay advice that you receive. Mark Winstead winstead@ml.kva.se or (esp after 1/1/1994) winstead@euclid.ucsd.edu _______________________________________________________________ Item #4 Nathan Zook: One position, not two I have just finished prelims here, so this question is of great interest to me. Four years ago, my wife was offered a 24.6K$ position with EDS for a good-GPA BS from a third-rate school. I'm afraid that if someone offered me an $18K position for a PhD, I'ld have to consider it an insult, and I CERTAINLY would never apply. I don't know if you noticed, but the good DoD fellowships are in the $19-22K range for early Graduate students--no teaching except as an educational experience for the student. My wife is now working as a secretary, I as a TA, and together we are earning ~$25K plus benifits. We live frugally, paying off student loans, and plan to start a family when I graduate. By the time we move, apply for the next position, and live for a year, I have to seriously question whether we could break even on $18K. So the answer is one would be better than two I couldn't consider. Nathan Zook nzook@math.utexas.edu _______________________________________________________________ Item #5 Dave Trautman: Respsonses to Aboufadel and McKay Regarding Aboufadel's comments about the relationship between what we teach and what students need to know for their jobs, I think this is something mathematics faculty will have to deal with a lot more in the future. With the exception of some summer jobs nearly 20 years ago, all my employment has been in academia. I suspect most college mathematics teachers have similar employment histories. I have made an effort to learn what employers prefer we teach our students. As best as I can tell, they want us to teach pretty much what we have been teaching (e.g., real analysis, modern algebra, mathematical modeling), plus some more experience in computer programming. I still need to learn more about this, however. Regarding McKay's question about whether to have one position at $36k or two at $18k, I suggest one position at $36k. I would vote for the two positions at half salary IF the academic job market held any promise of significant improvement in the very near future. Since that promise is sorely lacking, I suggest one position at full salary. It is awfully hard to live on $18k per year. I think a person would be better off searching for a nonacademic job than to take such a salary, especially since there is little reason to expect well-paying academic jobs to become plentiful any time soon. Aboufadel ended his EDitorial with comments about the graduate school experience. I think one of the main problems with graduate school is that for some time now graduate students have been imbued with the idea that an academic job, especially one geared towards research, is the only kind of job to really want. This has contributed a little towards the poor job market, as new Ph.D.'s try desperately to find any type of academic job, rather than try to find a nonacademic job. I cannot blame them; chances are I would do the same if I were in the same position. Nonetheless, I think it is best if new Ph.D.'s are forced to look for nonacademic jobs; given the sorry state of academic employment, this is less painful than trying to survive on $18k per year. Dave Trautman trautmand@citadel.edu _______________________________________________________________ Item #6 Kevin Madigan: Training vs. Education in Graduate School I, too, have been ponderaing the training vs. education question in graduate school. I really do beleive that the main function of the PhD program is education. Unfortunately, to be a college teacher you need a PhD, so some training is necessary. I don't think departments are two faced about this, I think they are confused and unrealistic. To speak from my own experience, I was a grad TA at Auburn University for one year, and at SUNY Albany for 5 and a half. At neither place was any effort made to prepare me to teach. My first day at AU I was asked to attend a very informal "orientation", which consisted of the undergraduate advisor introducing himself and handing out ridiculously useless, mass prepared lealflets on "How to teach college Mathematics". At SUNYA, I was simply told "Come to me if you have any questions." By the time I got to SUNYA I had been teaching a year, and was fairly confident, but my first class at AU was scary. To be fair to SUNYA, they have since instituted a loosely run teaching seminar to give new students some help, but it is still hit or miss, and I can tell you horror stories about ill prepared TAs. I'm sure we all could do the same. I think this is a problem everywhere, not just the two places with which I have experience. We are led to believe that the point of a PhD is to be educated so that we are then capable of doing research. I think this is a correct goal. However, when circumstances require it, this goal is overshadowed by the nonexistent "teacher training" aspect of our programs. Let me give you another example. At SUNYA, we had to pass 4 written preliminary examinations. One of my friends had completed 3 exams, all on the first attempt, and had begun working with his advisor. He was, however, having serious difficulty passing his last exam. After he had failed it for the fourth or fifth time, I commentd to some friends that he already had results (significant, from the standpoint of a thesis), had proved his ability as a Mathematician, and should just be allowed to get on with his degree. One of the faculty members overheard me, and gave a very lame rationalization: "Most people get thier PhD and never do any more research. They get teaching jobs. If they are going to be teachers, we have to guarantee that they know certain things." Huh? How many people at "teaching schools" have to teach graduate level Mathematics? The real question, of course, is if you are so concerned about preparing us to teach, then why don't you spend any time doing so? In closing, let me say that I think the primary purpose of the PhD program is to educate people to be Mathematicians. However, the reality is that you need to know how to teach. Tossing untrained, unmotivated, inexperienced TAs into a classroom setting is a gamble that usually pays off, but I know people who have come out of such an experience with the determination to never teach again, they were so bruised and batters by it. Weekly seminars encouraging students to meet and critique each other during presentations of freshman level material would be very useful. Above all, however, I think these departments have got to start being honest about this, and say, "Look, we'ere educating you to be Mathematicians, but you better learn how to teach, or you won't get one of the few jobs that are available." I think the real problem is that no one with tenure wants to admit that the market is so bad. It makes taking on new students morally indefensable. Kevin Madigan madigan@math.lamar.edu _______________________________________________________________ Item #7 Nicolas Robidoux: Mathematica, Axiom Edward Aboufadel wonders in his last editorial how many B.S. in mathematics look back in anger at their college careers with thoughts like "They should have taught me Mathematica". Personally I wonder why they directed me to Mathematica! Behind the nice interface the black box is so full of bugs as to be of dubious value for serious work (now that other systems have equally nice interfaces the only thing to recommend Mathematica for are the two excellent books, Wolfram's bible and Nancy Blackman's Mathematica: A Practical Approach). My advice is to learn Axiom if you have access to a workstation and are willing to deal with a racehorse which is a bit hard to harness, or else learn Maple or one of the versions of Macsyma. I am certain that there are other worthy candidates and refer you to the July/August 1993 issue ot the Notices of the AMS for a list of currently available computer algebra systems. Of course my position is similar to arguing that one is wasting her time learning Fortran instead of C, so I will concede that people should take into account what the standards in their likely field(s) are. Nicolas Robidoux nicolas@goshawk.LANL.GOV _______________________________________________________________ Item #8 Steve Penrice: Primarily Involved in Teaching I wanted to offer a few thoughts from the vantage point of a "Young Mathematician" who survived the job hunt, landed a tenure track position (after one one-year position), and is now primarily involved in teaching, despite having a better-than-decent publication record. While I haven't given up on someday landing a more research-oriented position, I am trying to use my current position to help improve the overall employment prospects for mathematicians. Let's face facts: Money is tight everywhere, and every academic department believes it deserves its *fair share* of whatever funds are available. Somewhere along the line choices have to made, and as long as mathematics is undervalued (and it IS, even among supposedly well-educated people like Deans, Provosts, and college Presidents), we are going to be short-changed. So, ugly as it may sound, we have to become involved in self-promotion. For me, this means becoming involved in designing General Education courses. My college has a GE program that includes a "Science, Mathematics, and Society" component, but my department has never offered a course that qualifies for this category. This has two negative effects: (1) We lose potential students, both those who would take the GE course itself and, among these, those whose interest in mathematics would be sufficiently fueled to make them want to take more math. (2) We are perceived by the administration and other departments as being aloof, which doesn't help when a struggle for resources comes up. So I am now putting together a course which will draw heavily on current news stories, advertising claims, political rhetoric, and other sources of lies which seek to disguise themselves in a quantitative cloak. Along with other members of my department's curriculum committee, I will be consulting with other departments to find out what they would like their students to be taught, so that we can know that we are doing things that will actually be valued. I encourage other YMN'ers (are we going to have a silly debate over this name like on YSN?) [Not if I can help it -- Ed.] who are in a position to undertake similar projects to do so, and to let the rest of us know about your successes and, yes, even your failures. I am willing to serve as a clearing house for this information. Even if you have not yet landed a tenure track position, you might want to try something like this, since being able to say that you designed a course, particularly one aimed at attracting students to mathematics, will look good on your vita. Stephen Penrice penrices@snycorva.cortland.edu Department of Mathematics penrices@snycorva.bitnet SUNY College at Cortland Cortland, NY 13045 (607) 753-2965 _______________________________________________________________ Item #9 Frank Sottile: A Job-hunters Seminar in Chicago From anectotal evidence that I have gathered over the past several years, it has seemed that many people have (all too late) lamented mistakes they made during their job application experience, largely due to lack of information or experience. At the University of Chicago, the graduating students have decided to hold regular meetings among ourselves to share information that our advisors parcel out to us, and I suspect to provide a support network for the emotionally straining months ahead. Among the radical moves we have made was to convince a senior faculty member to address us at a meeting to share their point of view on the application process. This will be especially helpful for students with young and inexperienced advisors. I guess I am naive, but I would think such a meeting would be a regular feature in any department that wants to see their graduates employed. A question that has come up, and I address this to all CoYM readers: What are the sources for job listings, and how reliable are they; is there a small number of sources which will contain all of the positions open to new Ph.D.'s? What advice does the collective wisdom of the readers contain on this matter? --- Frank Sottile. frank@math.uchicago.edu [I'll start to answer this question. Check out the job listings on e-math. To connect: telnet 130.44.1.100, use "e-math" for the login and the password, and go to the "Professional Opportunities" branch of the menu. You can have these job listings e-mailed to you. -- Ed.] _______________________________________________________________ Item #10 The Chalk Talk Room: Education Courses on my Resume? [The Chalk Talk Room is meant to be a place to ask questions and get answers about various concerns of young mathematicians, particularly the job search. --Ed.] I was an undergraduate secondary education major (area:math) before switching to mathematics while just a college geometry class and internship shy of graduating. I have encountered a few in my time who don't have much faith in education coursework completed under education professors. On the other hand, many don't have such a bias and this would be seen as an asset. I was hoping that some of the subscribers who have served on hiring committees in the past can give me their opinion on how to present this aspect of my background. (Last year I just said my undergraduate minor was education) Please e-mail me your responses and I will post a summary for all. Anyone who wishes the unedited remarks can also e-mail and I will forward any comments I receive. Mark Winstead winstead@ml.kva.se _______________________________________________________________ Item #11 The Chalk Talk Room: Clueless Parents and a Distant Spouse [The writer of the following requested that this be posted anonymously.] I have a few questions for the community. These are personal in nature, but I think many of us share these problems. Dear Abby (8^): I have been having a tough time living 1700 miles from my spouse. Are there many others enduring such hardships? (Misery loves company.) I have even heard the phrase "I am not too impressed with your profession." I certainly can't blame her for feeling this way. A related question: How many of you find it next to impossible to get your family to understand the academic world? I specifically mean parents. For example, my parents are so trapped in their corporate America mindset that they can't seem to understand that there are basically two career paths, Math teacher or Mathematician. The attitude is close to: A job is a job, an academic job at Harvard is no different than one at Podunk Junior College, except for pay and that you teach different classes and different students. Teaching is the only possible thing that you would be doing in an academic setting, all valuable research is done by corporations in their R and D departments. If you have a job you don't like, you gota stick it out for awhile, because moving too quick looks bad on your resume, its a sign of unstability and lack of commitment. Let me give some examples. When I told my father I was looking for a postdoc, and explained that a postdoc is where you go somewhere and study Mathematics full time, with a reduced or nonexistent teaching load, he replied, "But sooner or later you have to get a real job." When I told him that my heavy teaching load was getting in the way of my research by saying "I was happier as a graduate student making $10,000," his response was "Of course, you didn't have to work." As if writing a thesis and looking for a job in this market isn't work! On top of all the stress of the current job situation, it is no fun having well meaning yet misled family members encouraging you to do things that would be detrimental to your career, and refusing to realize that they live and work in a much different world. Does this sound familiar to anyone out there? I can't be the only one, can I? Oh, well, I figured that since one of the stated goals of YMN is to "support" each other, I should use it as a "support group". _______________________________________________________________ Item #12 Closing Credits The Young Mathematicians' Network is adminstered by: Charles Yeomans cyeomans@s.ms.uky.edu Mark Winstead winstead@ml.kva.se Steve Kennedy kennedy@stolaf.edu Kalin Godev kalin@math.psu.edu Neil Calkin calkin@math.gatech.edu Curtis Bennett cbennet@andy.bgsu.edu Jeff Adams adams@bright.uoregon.edu Edward Aboufadel aboufade@scus1.ctstateu.edu _______________________________________________________________ End of Journal -- Next week: The Discussion Continues