*Concerns of Young Mathematicians* Volume 3, Issue 15 April 19, 1995 An electronically distributed digest for discussions of the issues of concern to mathematicians at the beginning of their careers. Please, direct submissions and questions to Kevin Madigan madigan@math.nwu.edu , editor for the month of February. Next issue: Wednesday, 12 April. March Editor: Wendy Brunzie brunzie@turing.ucdavis.edu April Editor: Kevin Madigan madigan@math.nwu.edu May Editor: Franklin Mendivil mendivil@math.gatech.edu To subscribe: Contact Charles Yeomans at cyeomans@ms.uky.edu Back issues and other information are available via anonymous FTP to ftp.ms.uky.edu, in pub3/mailing.lists/ymn-list. Or connect to the YMN homepage on the WWW, the URL: http://math34.gatech.edu:8080/YMN/ymn.html The views expressed here do not necessarily represent those of the administrative board or membership of the Young Mathematicians' Network. The editorial policy of this newsletter is to encourage discussion of issues, and facilitate the dissemination of information, relevant to the concerns of young mathematicians. Table of Contents Item # Title ------ ----- 1 Editor's notes 2 AMS/SIAM Project on Nonacademic Employment 3 "Mathematics is a 'Dog Job'", says P.O.V. 4 So You Wanna Be an Actuary? 5 Closing Credits _______________________________________________________________ Item #1 Editor's notes: Hello, dear readers. Check out the latest monthly membership newsletters of the AMS and SIAM for mentions of YMN and/or articles of interest to our readership. In particular, take note of the Forum in the May issue of `Notices of the AMS' (`Another View of the Current Tough Job Market'). Anyone care to get a discussion on this topic going in the pages of the *Concerns*? As usual, we welcome submissions from one and all for publication. _______________________________________________________________ Item #2 AMS/SIAM Project on Nonacademic Employment The AMS and SIAM are up to something in the area of career advising and development in nonacademic environments. The following ad appeared on e-math this winter. One thing this position has in common with the positions that some (many?) young mathematicians have is that it is for one year, with a possible extension to a second year. Nice salary, too. The application deadline has passed, though. -- PROJECT DIRECTOR: The American Mathematical Society and the Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics are undertaking a project, funded by the Sloan Foundation, to provide information and services regarding employment of mathematical scientists in nonacademic environments. The two societies are seeking a project director to manage this project. The project director will be located either in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, or Providence, Rhode Island, and will be expected to spend time each month in both locations. Candidates for this position are expected to have excellent communication and organizational skills, experience working with industry, experience in academia, and a Ph.D. in one of the mathematical sciences. Outcomes of this project include: developing a database of nonacademic employment profiles; developing a cadre of volunteers willing to assist academic faculties in advising, preparing, and mentoring graduate students in the mathematical sciences; developing materials and services for career information and career management for graduate students in the mathematical sciences; and facilitating communication and understanding between academic mathematicians and mathematicians who have chosen nonacademic employment. The project director will be responsible for day-to-day operations and the overall success of the project. Salary Range: $70,000-$80,000 for twelve months Term: One calendar year with possible extension up to an additional year To apply: Send resume, letter of interest, names of at least four references, including addresses and telephone numbers, to: Director of Human Resources American Mathematical Society P. O. Box 6248 Providence, RI 02940-6248 Screening of applications will begin March 30, 1995, and will continue until the position is filled. The American Mathematical Society and the Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics are Equal Opportunity Employers. Ed Aboufadel aboufade@scus1.ctstateu.edu _______________________________________________________________ Item #3 "Mathematics is a `Dog Job'", says P.O.V. This is a follow-up to a posting a few weeks ago about an article in a magazine called P.O.V. Now, instead of a report from USA Today, the magazine itself is in my hands. The cover story of this magazine concerns "P.O.V's Hot 10 and Not 10 job list" to "help guide you into the 21st century." The article, entitled, "Heaven or Hell?", is by Stefan Fatsis, who the editors describe as "a 31-year-old crackerjack reporter [who] knows how to research an article." Fatsis spent two months researching the article, which included interviewing "hundreds of people" and "yards of documents". Most of the "Hot Jobs" are computer-related. To be more specific, they are Internet related, with titles such as Interactive Advertising Executive and Cyberdetective. Other Hot Jobs are Funeral Director and Emerging Markets Trader. Mathematicians are one of the ten "Dog Jobs" that have fallen out of favor. (Does that mean we are "in Hell?") Here is the list: 1. Bank Teller 6. Government Bureaucrat 2. Telephone Operator 7. Specialist Physician 3. Factory Worker 8. Farmer 4. Newspaper Reporter 9. Wall Street Lawyer 5. Corporate Middle Manager 10. Mathematician and here is what P.O.V. has to say about our profession: "Pure mathematics, the stuff of blackboard equations on university campuses, isn't a huge field to begin with -- about 16,000 jobs. But expected reductions in research and development mean much slower-than-average growth. Math wonks need to combine their skills with computer science, engineering or operations research to survive. Telling fact: A microscopic 8% total growth in jobs through 2005." In finer print is a long chart of several other professions that are not included in the main article. Included in this list is Physicists and Astronomers, which, although not a member of the "Not 10", is listed with a predicted 3% drop in jobs in the next ten years. P.O.V. seems to be geared at the 18-24 age segment of the market. The issue I am quoting from is their premier issue, and Michael Richards (Kramer on Seinfeld) is on the cover, looking confused, with the caption, "What Should I Do?" "Something other than become a mathematician" seems to be P.O.V.'s answer. Ed Aboufadel aboufade@scus1.ctstateu.edu _______________________________________________________________ Item #4 So You Wanna Be an Actuary? Recently, I decided to leave academia and become an actuary. I haven't actually begun my new career yet; I start in June. I want to share what little advice I can give for those wishing to pursue actuarial work, and to share some of my interviewing experiences. Neither topic can be expounded upon at great length. Let's start with advice. START TAKING EXAMS. Actuarial employers are impressed with nothing less. My having a PhD was not as important as my having had sat for two exams in February. The first exam covers Calculus and Linear Algebra, and should be no trouble for any of us. The second exam is Probability and Statistics, again not too terribly hard for us. I really cannot overstate the importance of exams. If you want to take more than the first two, it is a good idea to take exams accepted by BOTH the Casualty Actuarial Society and the Society of Actuaries. (The addresses and phone numbers of these two societies appear at the end of this article.) Unless you have some actuarial experience, you must try to get an entry level position. Do not fret about the fact that you have a PhD or a Masters degree and are being hired to do the work normally given to someone with just a BS or BA. Within a few years it won't matter. The starting salary for someone with two exams passed is comparable to the average starting salary for an Assistant Professor of Mathematics with a brand new PhD. In 1993, the average starting salary for a new Fellow (one who has passed all exams and other requirements) was $70,000+. How do you get an interview? The SoA has a little booklet they will send you with the names and contact info of companies looking to hire entry level folks. Its called "Actuarial Training Programs". Get it. Also, it is imperative that you NETWORK. Talk to the career counselors at your school. Talk to friends and colleagues. Many of you already know people in the business; they may have taken calc from you, or have been a colleague in graduate school, etc. Does your graduate or undergraduate institution have an actuarial program? It might not be a bad idea to look at the CML (by geographical area) and do a little cross referencing, looking for members of the MAA, AMS, or SIAM who work in this field. Talk to anyone and everyone about this to see who can help. I should illustrate this with an example. After making the decision to become an actuary, I found out that one of the guys writing letters for me is the director of the actuarial studies program in his department. We spoke, and he gave me a name, which led to an interview which led to a job (thanks again, Carl!). The only other interview I had was made possible by my father introducing me to an actuary who has a PhD in Mathematics. (My father is not an actuary, but is in the insurance business.) In neither case did I blindly send a resume to someone. They knew it was coming and made sure I was interviewed. I don't know how useful recruiters are for entry level actuarial positions. I only contacted two recruiters. One flat out told me she couldn't help me due to my inexperience. The other asked me to mail my resume. I haven't heard from him since. I am under the impression that most actuarial recruiters are only interested in placing people with experience. Of course, it won't hurt you to go ahead and contact a few. It won't cost anything (except maybe a long distance phone call), and they will at least know who you are. You may get lucky and find one who knows of a job for which you are well suited. Another gem of advice I can give you is that actuarial work is not all about math/stats, it is about business. Do not try to go into this if you expect to sit around doing math all day. Certainly, jobs exist where one does a lot of number crunching and computational statistics. Bottom line, however, is business. You will be sorely disappointed if you expect otherwise (I am sure there are exceptions to this rule, but as a general rule I think it is a good one. At least, that is what my actuarial friends tell me.) A moderate business background can really help you. Good communications skills are an essential part of many actuarial jobs. If you are a good teacher, pump that up. Some people even claim that there are distinct personality differences between those in the life and casualty sides of the business. It wouldn't hurt you to learn the basics of life, property and liability insurance. In fact, you really should learn a bit about the insurance industry before trying to get an interview. Of course, you should ask a lot of questions once you get there. You have to impress the interviewers with your seriousness. This is a big career shift. There isn't much advice I can give on interviewing other than the generic. However, I do need to share one important point. Lots of people out there have the idea that a PhD will be unhappy with or unable to handle the mundane aspects of an office job. In fact, this was a big issue during my interviews. I would go so far as to say a few of the people interviewing me had no interest in me at all because of this prejudice. Fortunately, I was able to convince enough people otherwise; I got the offer I really wanted (and I still won't have to wear a tie!). We all know (or should know) that in order to get a job you have to project a good attitude, convince the people doing the interviewing that you will work well on a team (incredibly important!) and that you will be valuable to the company. It may not be obvious to them that you will be valuable. Do you expect to sit around all day doing the math/stats that you find interesting? Or do you expect to do your job well? Doing your job well may not entail much mathematics or statistics. However, you posses a very well trained brain, you have to convince those doing the hiring that you WANT to use this brain to help them make money (that is what it is all about, isn't it?). Here are the addresses and phone numbers: Society of Actuaries Casualty Actuarial Society 475 North Martingale Rd. 1100 North Glebe Road Suite 800 Suite 600 Schaumburg, IL 60173-2226 Arlington, VA 22201 (708) 706-3500 (703) 276-3100 Kevin Madigan madigan@math.nwu.edu _______________________________________________________________ Item #5 Closing Credits Charles Yeomans cyeomans@ms.uky.edu Mark Winstead mwwinst@gcr.com Nancy Wilson nwilson@stmarys-ca.edu Emil Volcheck Emil.Volcheck@risc.uni-linz.ac.at Frank Sottile sottile@math.toronto.edu Vic Perera vicum@math.ohio-state.edu Franklin Mendivil mendivil@math.gatech.edu Kevin Madigan madigan@math.nwu.edu Leigh Lunsford lunsford@math.uah.edu Steve Kennedy skennedy@mathcs.carleton.edu Matt Hudelson hudelson@math.washington.edu Silvia Heubach silvi@cinenet.net Bob Dobrow dobrow@cam.nist.gov Lyle Cochran lcochran@fresno.edu Kevin Charlwood kec1@bradley.bradley.edu Neil Calkin calkin@math.gatech.edu Wendy Brunzie brunzie@mathfs.math.montana.edu Curtis Bennett cbennet@bgnet.bgsu.edu Frank Arlinghaus frank@math.ysu.edu Edward Aboufadel aboufade@sun.scsu.ctstateu.edu _______________________________________________________________ End of Journal -- Next week: The Discussion Continues